All-Stars Rant...Skimpy Uniforms, Inappropriate Dances, and Front Spots

[FalconCheer08]

Just adding my 2 cents about the singing during routines.
I hate it - -what's up with that anyway?

I have no idea why they do it, or why they're coaches allow them to. I know I would sing in practice and classes but as soon as I hit the mat it was all smiles and a few facials. My coaches told me, and I tell my athletes, as long as I got it out of my system in practice they were fine with it.

There's a thread about huge insane facials and how awfully distracting those are so why should singing be any different??

[SoCalCheerCoach2]

I find singing along to the music, distracting during a comp. routine as well.  Personally, I think most coaches would discourage it and it's probably the cheerleaders doing it themselves.  I know my girls find it fun to sing along instead of smiling and doing (very subtle) facials.  But, they are only allowed to sing along one time.  I tell them to get it out of their systems because I like them to practice how they would perform. 

[Elite_Cheer_Girl]

i have a concern for my team (cheerleader) were getting new uniforms there ugly but there blue and green metalic! we use to have the simple black blue and white uniforms and just simple make up but not very noticable like other teams. I feel that were heading away from the simple cheer and caring about our team mates and not caring how about we look to the big eye shadow wing and glitter lipstick and that big ugly puff in our hair. i'm afarid to tell my coach that i (we..our whole team) doesn't like this and we want to go back but were afarid she won't listen and won't take our concern into appreciation.

[FalconCheer08]

i have a concern for my team (cheerleader) were getting new uniforms there ugly but there blue and green metalic! we use to have the simple black blue and white uniforms and just simple make up but not very noticable like other teams. I feel that were heading away from the simple cheer and caring about our team mates and not caring how about we look to the big eye shadow wing and glitter lipstick and that big ugly puff in our hair. i'm afarid to tell my coach that i (we..our whole team) doesn't like this and we want to go back but were afarid she won't listen and won't take our concern into appreciation.

Tell your coach!! I'd never put my girls in something they were uncomfortable wearing - if they're that uncomfortable that they feel the need to complain to me about it, I'll find a way to change it if it's that big of a concern.

[Travana]

Definitely express your concerns to your coach!  If she gets mad or won't listen...well that's not a good coach.  Maybe she thinks you all want to keep up with everyone else in that respect?  Maybe she thinks you need to have the same style in order to be judged fairly against them? <~not true, btw!

[rainbow1]

I coach rec league, but my daughter is on an all-star team.  Her coaches told them to sing along with the songs - that the judges look for it - that it's the latest trend.

I don't know true that is...but I'm with you.  I'd rather they just smile.

As I was watching Nationals, the announcers kept saying "look at how much fun they're having, you can tell they're really enjoying what they're doing" when they were showing a team that was showing actual enthusiasm and smiling as if they were enjoying themselves (because they were) and they didn't say anything for the teams that doubled as choirs.

And I'd agree with coachamie - I think they made that up too!! I coach all-star and I've never told my girls to do that (and I'd like to say that I keep up with the "latest trends" it's only been 6 years since I myself was on the all-star mat) My biggest problem with it, and this is how I explain it to both my all-stars and my Varsity, is that if you're thinking about the words you're lipping and you're not thinking about the counts you're going to screw up. I don't care that you know the routine so well you don't need to count, you do, you need to think about the pace that you're going and make sure you're concentrating on what you're doing.

My daughter cheers Varsity Coed and also All-Star.  Her All star coaches have never told them to sing along, but there is one girl on her squad who does this.  And instead of impeding her, it helps her.  I think she does it so that she is not "overthinking" the stunt sequence.  It helps her to relax and go with the flow.

[CheerTatersnGravy]

I know I'm a little late on this thread... but I just now read it and I just want to share my thoughts!

I think all-star and high school both have their places and both serve to enhance different parts of cheer leading. I do agree with that fact that many all star uniforms are inappropriate but in the end it just comes down to a matter of culture. I wish all-star and high schools could recognize the differences and strengths that each has instead of going after each other all the time! All star is a great thing for people who love the stunting, the dance, and the gymnastics but aren't so much into the school spirit thing, while high school is great for the girl who wants to get involved in her community while still getting a taste of the stunts, ect. It's all just a matter of personal taste and what will fit your end goals. They both serve to prepare girls for college in different ways, and what one lacks the other teaches. Myself, I cheered for a very traditional style squad in high school... with the white sweaters and pleated skirts and simple stunts, but I'm finding ways to fill in what I didn't get to learn there. I go to community college which is giving time to work on other skills before I transfer. I'm going to be coaching an 18+ NAFL cheer squad next summer, so I'll get a TON of leadership experience, and I'm solving the tumbling issue by going to an all-star gym for private lessons. So I guess I'm combining the best of traditional cheer and all-star to get the skills I need for college. I personally think thats its just a matter of two different cheer "cultures." That doesn't mean you have to agree, but you can still respect the hard work that each does!

Also, my two cents on the "front spot" issue. Some one made a comment about there being extra kids who just don't have a place anywhere else... and it makes me sad to hear that people practice that policy. In high school, I was that girl, and if girls start to figure out thats why they are spotters, as opposed to actually being needed, you may unknowingly be damaging their confidence! The adviser didn't take the time on me or a couple of other new girls to honestly get to know our strengths and the captains didn't like me enough to try to push me learning new stunts. We had three stunt groups and two/three "extras" and I was always the "you front spot this elevator/extension girl" for most of the season. I would have SO rather ran behind them with banners or signs... SOMETHING! I knew I was an extra and I felt pretty terrible about it, to be honest. I got banned from a half time routine once for going to zero hour class instead of an extra cheer practice in the morning, and so I had to sit and watch my stunt group put the stunt up with no trouble even though I wasn't in it. So I felt pretty unimportant. I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you have a stunt group that doesn't need fronts... please don't use them! Kids are pretty smart, and if they know they are just there as a filler, and it's a constant place for them, they may start to think they either aren't liked, or may lose confidence to stunt.  I can understand wanting to remain competitive with the other squads, but in the end I think the most important aspect of cheerleading is creating confident, bright, and capable girls and young women (and men!) than winning trophies!

[PPSMOM]

My daughter has been all-star cheerleading for 3 years, and she is only 7.  I have seen many competitions in different venues.  I feel the people who have problems with how the squads dance have their own issues.  When she goes out (and yes shakes her hips) in her sparkly uniform, big bow, fake pony, and glitter eye shadow I gleam with pride.  It's not about trying to make girls fit into an image, it's about making them feel good about themselves.  Negative images are all around our children, it is what we teach them that leads them to be productive adults.  By the way this year she also did rec cheer, and guess what her skirt was shorter than her all-star one!!  All-star cheer is about putting on a show of skills and ability, with that comes showmanship.  Anyone who has competed in dance or singing knows about showmanship.  It comes with glitz and glam.  The other thing is when my daughter cheered rec she cheered with girls 5 years older than her and her skills were far more advanced than almost all of her team.  She also looked awesome without her make-up and fake hair and she knew it.   I do agree with the exposed stomachs, but only because I was never a twiggy child and I feel bad for those girls who the uniform does not flatter.  But then again maybe there PARENTS are building their self esteem so it doesn't bother them. 

[ucaCHEERalum]

Say what you want PPSMOM, but IMO, allstars has done more to HURT cheerleading than to help it.

[Stunt Double 4U]

I don't think All Star cheerleading has hurt cheerleading at all.  I think the gyms AND schools that don't pride themselves on having good coaches and teaching proper progression, thus teaching kids skills they have no business working on, have hurt cheerleading.  I think the mainly unwarranted negative media attention has hurt cheerleading.  Good all star programs do their jobs like good HS cheer programs: they teach skills, they enforce safety and they wow a crowd.  Do I agree with the uniforms they choose--9 times out of ten, no, but 9 times out of 10 I'm impressed with their skills.  To say they've hurt cheerleading is insulting to the people that put their heart and soul into those gyms and to bettering the lives of those kids.

[coolcoach]

I don't think All Star cheerleading has hurt cheerleading at all.  I think the gyms AND schools that don't pride themselves on having good coaches and teaching proper progression, thus teaching kids skills they have no business working on, have hurt cheerleading.  I think the mainly unwarranted negative media attention has hurt cheerleading.  Good all star programs do their jobs like good HS cheer programs: they teach skills, they enforce safety and they wow a crowd.  Do I agree with the uniforms they choose--9 times out of ten, no, but 9 times out of 10 I'm impressed with their skills.  To say they've hurt cheerleading is insulting to the people that put their heart and soul into those gyms and to bettering the lives of those kids.

I agree. I used to coach AS, and I know that my particular gym had excellent staff who taught based on progressions and follwed the safey rules to the letter (and won several national titles also).  I think all of those scaremongering injury reports hurt cheer WAY more than anything else ever could.

[ucaCHEERalum]

Stunt Double - take my statement for what you will...but know that I wasn't trying to insult anyone, I was merely stating my opinion.  Perhaps I should have said that Allstar Cheerleading has done more to hurt the perception of cheerleading than it has done to help it.

I just feel that the nature of Allstars (scant uniforms, conceited sing-songy cheers, preteens performing provocative dances, money driven coaches/programs that hastily push the envelope, etc.) goes against everything that school cheerleading (real cheerleading) was established to do.

Call me a purist, call me old-fashioned, call me names that won't appear on here after hitting the "Post" button...but I personally can't stand the fact that school programs get lumped in with Allstars.   

[ACEDAD]

Stunt Double - take my statement for what you will...but know that I wasn't trying to insult anyone, I was merely stating my opinion.  Perhaps I should have said that Allstar Cheerleading has done more to hurt the perception of cheerleading than it has done to help it.

I just feel that the nature of Allstars (scant uniforms, conceited sing-songy cheers, preteens performing provocative dances, money driven coaches/programs that hastily push the envelope, etc.) goes against everything that school cheerleading (real cheerleading) was established to do.

Call me a purist, call me old-fashioned, call me names that won't appear on here after hitting the "Post" button...but I personally can't stand the fact that school programs get lumped in with Allstars.   

Hmmm.  I guess I can agree with this.  I know nobody had any kind of inappropriate thoughts about cheerleaders in sweaters until Allstar (competitive) cheerleading started.  School cheers were all straight forward and not sing-songy at all and all the cheerleaders always cheered for the right team and everyting.  Three high pyramids and mini tramps: were they on page 10 or 11 of the progressions manual??  Must have missed where the school cheerleaders weren't hastily pushing any envelopes.

After all, I guess I can't agree, except for the fact that I personally can't stand the fact that school programs get lumped in with Allstars.

[coolcoach]

I thought this would be appropriate for this thread. It's from the USASF website:

A recommendation from the USASF

Coaches should consider ALL squad members’ body types when choosing a
uniform style.  The uniform should comfortably fit the athlete, and the
athlete should feel comfortable performing in the uniform.  The skirt
on female cheerleaders should cover briefs completely in front and back
while standing; and should fit loosely enough not to “ride up” around
waist during performance.  Crop tops should reasonably cover the
athlete, and not be so short that bra tops show during “arm over head”
movements.  This is not a mandatory rule for this season, but simply a
recommendation.  We must present our participants as athletes, and be aware
that many children to not have the body type to make some uniforms fit
the above criteria.

I think it's good that they've released a statement about this, especially considering the number of coaches, parents, etc. who say that USASF doesn't pay attention to these types of issues. I may be reading way too much into this, but it says that "this is just a recommendation for this season." Is it possible that USASF could potentially be passing some sort of uniform related regulations in the future?

[ucaCHEERalum]

Stunt Double - take my statement for what you will...but know that I wasn't trying to insult anyone, I was merely stating my opinion.  Perhaps I should have said that Allstar Cheerleading has done more to hurt the perception of cheerleading than it has done to help it.

I just feel that the nature of Allstars (scant uniforms, conceited sing-songy cheers, preteens performing provocative dances, money driven coaches/programs that hastily push the envelope, etc.) goes against everything that school cheerleading (real cheerleading) was established to do.

Call me a purist, call me old-fashioned, call me names that won't appear on here after hitting the "Post" button...but I personally can't stand the fact that school programs get lumped in with Allstars.   

Hmmm.  I guess I can agree with this.  I know nobody had any kind of inappropriate thoughts about cheerleaders in sweaters until Allstar (competitive) cheerleading started.  School cheers were all straight forward and not sing-songy at all and all the cheerleaders always cheered for the right team and everyting.  Three high pyramids and mini tramps: were they on page 10 or 11 of the progressions manual??  Must have missed where the school cheerleaders weren't hastily pushing any envelopes.

After all, I guess I can't agree, except for the fact that I personally can't stand the fact that school programs get lumped in with Allstars.

Wow, guess I struck a nerve, huh Ace?

You can talk about the middle years of school cheerleading (3 high pyramids, mini tramps, etc.) all you want.  Those were all part of cheerleading BEFORE any major regulation took place.  So for your argument to hold any water with me lets agree to talk about RECENT trends in cheerleading since the popularity boom of Allstars. 

While school cheerleading has taken a turn back towards its roots (leading the crowd first - using skills to help keep attention on the field/court) Allstars has done next to NOTHING to help push the perception of cheerleaders in a positive direction.  Maybe your gym does...but its the exception and definitely not the rule. 

And while you may think that most school cheerleaders "push the envelope" you'll never be able to convince me of this...for one, look at the return that school programs (the majority of whom STILL DO NOT compete) would receive vs. the return that an Allstar program could see from 'pushing the envelope'.  Allstar gyms are businesses, businesses that are trying to make money.  What does winning a competition (or placing well) do for enrollment at these gyms?  It drives it.  Now, I fancy myself as a business man and I can tell you that I'm much more apt to take a risk when there is a chance to better my financial state.  You're fooling yourself if you think that these businesses (Allstar gyms) wouldn't do the same. 

Unfortunately, we see lots of programs going too far, performing skills that are well above their talent level (with poor technique mind you), programs that try to out glitz each other by squeezing their participants into questionable uniforms and then proceeding to coat them with a thick layer of glitter.   In the end, the skills may or may not be there but there is always very little substance. 

Sure a school program can benefit from a win at a competition...but for the vast majority of them, competition is an afterthought...meaning that the pressure is only to stay safe out on the court/field and to lead the crowd to the best of their ability.

Listen I could go on and on about the whys and we could tangle over this all you want - but we should probably do so via the private message function.

Keep this in mind though...to quote one of my favorite movie Vice Principals - Vice Principal Vernon - "you mess with the bull, you're gonna get the horns".  Only kidding...kind of.

[ACEDAD]

Yes, probably struck a little nerve.   

I know that this board is primarily for the school teams, so I probably should have kept my mouth shut.  However, I really don't think the statement "allstar cheerleading has done more to hurt the perception of cheerleading than it has done to help it" is true.

Prior to the growth of all stars, I don't think the perception of cheerleading was very high at all.  It definitely wasn't thought of as very athletic. Remember that I'm talking about perception here, not truth.  I firmly believe that all stars helped change that perception, at least a little.

Also, despite all the "drama" that seems to surround cheerleading in every form, most of the publicized drama is in the high school realm.  Moms adopting their daughter's identity, moms trying to get others "bumped off" so their own cp can make the squad, etc.  Not saying stupid stuff doesn't happen in all stars, but the perception isn't out their in the public's eye.

I definitely feel there is a place for both school and all stars.  And I wish there was a way to separate the two.  Help us come up with a different word for all star cheerleading.  I'll help promote it.  Till then we're stuck.

And I really object to your comment that "allstars has done next to NOTHING to help push the perception of cheerleaders in a positive direction."  That just has to come from complete ignorance.  The growth of the USASF and the Worlds competition is one of the most positive thing to EVER happen to cheerleading.  It's causing growth in cheerleaders around the world.  The growth of the special needs division has created more positive press about all star cheerleading in the past 7 years than high school probably has in the last 27 or more.

I know that cheerleaders are there for school spirit and they do a remarkable job.  But stories of cheerleaders having to clean guys locker rooms, and put together goodie packs and generally serve as "slaves" to the players does more harm than any all star story I've ever seen.

I appreciate the offer to talk in PM's, but we're both pretty level headed and I think we can all benefit if this discussion continues.

[ucaCHEERalum]

You'll get no argument from me about Allstars has boosting the popularity of and interest in cheerleading.  It has...and I don't believe that I said anything the contrary.  (I'll also readily admit that I did not know about the work with special needs squads that has gone on until very recently - kudos)   

But just because you've piqued interest or are popular doesn't mean that you are helping shape the perception in a positive light.  So you've got a forum...and a rather large one at that (World's)...well, what is allstars doing to eliminate all the stuff that trivializes cheerleading (the facials, the fake hair, the trashy outfits and dances, the tick-tock head, the sing-songy me me me me me cheers that go on and on and on and on, the horrible makeup jobs, the unfounded and unsafe practice of using front spots, etc - I know, I know, schools do some of this stuff too...but I think we can agree that it is not to the same capacity)?   

You can't tell me that all that glittered garbage is helping cheerleaders garner respect.  IMO, all that attention that Allstars has been getting (which could be used for good) has put a spotlight on the wrong aspects of "cheerleading".   

Perception is a funny thing, y'know?  At its most very basic definition it means an observation.  Every time I observe an Allstar squad someone sticks their tongue out at me and I see 6 year olds that have more make up caked on their (once cute) little faces than all the folks at a Mary Kay convention.  I guess I just have a hard time seeing through all the clutter.  And since I am a coach and former cheerleader and still can't see past it - my conclusion is that the general public can't either.  Tell me if I'm off base here Ace.
                                                                                                                                                       
- -

Perhaps you are right.  A name change is in order.  I'll put some thought into it and get back with you.

[Pauliana]

Perception is a funny thing, y'know?  At its very most basic definition it means an observation.  Every time I observe an Allstar squad someone sticks their tongue out at me.  When looking close you see that 6 year olds have more make up caked on their little faces than all the folks at a mary kay convention.  Tell me I'm wrong.

You have a valid point here! I love the institution of All Star Cheerleading, but I do not think a face full of make-up on a mini squad, or any other squad, is helping to promote the sport.

Uniform styles come and go. People want to stand out, if not with their ability, then with something else that will stick with the fans, be it good... or not so good.

[ACEDAD]

You'll get no argument from me about Allstars has boosting the popularity of and interest in cheerleading.  It has...and I don't believe that I said anything the contrary.  (I'll also readily admit that I did not know about the work with special needs squads that has gone on until very recently - kudos)   

But just because you've piqued interest or are popular doesn't mean that you are helping shape the perception in a positive light.  So you've got a forum...and a rather large one at that (World's)...well, what is allstars doing to eliminate all the stuff that trivializes cheerleading (the facials, the fake hair, the trashy outfits and dances, the tick-tock head, the sing-songy me me me me me cheers that go on and on and on and on, the horrible makeup jobs, the unfounded and unsafe practice of using front spots, etc - I know, I know, schools do some of this stuff too...but I think we can agree that it is not to the same capacity)?   

You can't tell me that all that glittered garbage is helping cheerleaders garner respect.  IMO, all that attention that Allstars has been getting (which could be used for good) has put a spotlight on the wrong aspects of "cheerleading".   

Perception is a funny thing, y'know?  At its most very basic definition it means an observation.  Every time I observe an Allstar squad someone sticks their tongue out at me and I see 6 year olds that have more make up caked on their (once cute) little faces than all the folks at a Mary Kay convention.  I guess I just have a hard time seeing through all the clutter.  And since I am a coach and former cheerleader and still can't see past it - my conclusion is that the general public can't either.  Tell me if I'm off base here Ace.
                                                                                                                                                       
- -

Perhaps you are right.  A name change is in order.  I'll put some thought into it and get back with you.

We'll both agree (I believe) that there are elements in each group that we would prefer to disown.  And I've got to admit, if you "observed" me, I might stick my tongue out too!   

But I haven't seen fake hair in a while and I really don't know what you mean about the cheers that go on and on.  Heck, some of the squads at ACE don't even do a cheer at all any more during the routine (gripes the heck out of some of the moms).

There is definitely more of a "show" aspect to allstar cheerleading and that accounts for some of the uniform and color decisions.  But some are horrific.  The good news in allstars is that the parents can choose to change gyms.  Not so much in school cheerleading.

Anyway, I think USASF is helping to promote the positive aspects of allstar cheerleading.  Maybe it's not helping as much as I would like or you can see, but I do think it's getting better.

We'll just have to keep trying to shine the light on the good and do what we can to eliminate the bad.

[ali]

Acedad is right. Allstars are all about showmanship. My daughter's team competed against Ace a couple of times 2008-09 year. Never beat Ace though. They are awesome and we really enjoy watching them perform. My daughter loves her Allstar comps and likes cheering at highschool games. I think that Allstar teams have pushed high school teams to focus on cheerleaders being athletes rather than looking cute in the cheer skirt. The girls on our high school team have evolved standing around calling out some cheers to the crowd to needing a standing tuck. And yes, when the school cheerleaders tumble and stunt and do awesome jump sequences when the team scores...the crowd gets excited. Allstars have MADE high school cheerleaders "up their game". Girls who want to cheer on our school team just to "get popular" better get to an Allstar gym and get some skill first if they want to make the team.  Oh...people don't have to go to cheer comps to see young girls with a midriff showing and "theatrical" makeup. They can just go to the beach and see all of the girls they want in way less than a short skirt with shiny bloomers and their midriff showing.