High school teams throwing unsafe stunts

[Kong]

The best advice I can give anyone when it comes to dealing with inconsistencies between AACCA and NFHS rules is to follow the more strict set of rules.  Hypothetically speaking, if someone is injured doing a skill that one organization says is legal and the other says is illegal and someone does decide to file a lawsuit, you would have the defendant cite the more conservative rules in a court of law.  If you were following the more conservative rules, they would not have that point to make in court.

Kong

[ucaCHEERalum]

WORD TO YOUR MOMMA, KONG!

[melpv1]

Well let me put it this way. . . I know for a fact that PIAA recognizes NFHS rules.  We are not actually held to any rules since there is no governing body for cheerleading in PA.  However, since PIAA governs other sports, I have chosen to follow NFHS rules since those are the ones instituted by our District's AD's at the District Cheerleading Championship.  On the basis of those facts, I think it's a safe assumption to follow NFHS rather than AACCA rules, particularly since the differences are few and rather negligible.

[ucaCHEERalum]

I'm a proponent of cheerleaders getting to stunt at games...I never want to see that privilege taken away.  But just because your state isn't really regulating things doesn't mean you should feel free to do whatever you want.
 
I was very disheartened a few years ago when the NCAA and AACCA decided to limit stunts/pyramids at the collegiate level.  However, after a few years of operating without basket tosses and full downs on the hardwood, I can honestly say that it was the right move.

You need to ask yourself whether full downs on a basketball court (or for that matter, during any game you are cheering) are worth it.  Do they help you to lead the crowd better?  Do they implore your fans to yell with you?  If so, then great...keep doing them. 

However, if an accident happens (and you're being naive if you think they won't happen to you, even the best programs have accidents) and someone asks, "Why were they doing that particular skill?"  What will your answer be? 

Why not have the prettiest, highest straight cradles?  Wouldn't that accomplish the task of dismounting your top?

Now more than ever coaches are being held accountable for their decisions and its a good idea to police yourself before someone does it for you.

[cobwebbedroses]

This may seem odd, but the reason stated above is basically why I don't even teach skills that are illegal on the basketball court. We only cheer basketball, our school doesn't have football or any other sport where we would be cheering on grass or rubber track. We don't compete. We can't afford to buy a game mat right now. We have several old tri-fold ones we use when learning new stunts, or we'll learn them outside on the school lawn. Most of my girls don't have the money to go to all-stars or outside tumbling, so it's extremely rare for someone to cheer in college.

We don't need the skills to do our job, so we use that practice time to perfect the ones we do use.  I'm the first coach they've been allowed to stunt with in years, so I'd rather stay at the lower levels and prove we can do those solidly to the admin. Once we save up for a game mat, and the school trusts us and respects that we'd like to be a more athletic program, then we can start moving on to more advanced skills and thinking about competing.

[CheerHounds]

I also coach in northern california, and my thoughts are regardless of what rules we are actually "required" to follow, I say if it's illegal through any safety administration, or by any state, I'm going to save my own butt and I will not let my girls do it. I don't care if my girls have perfect double downs and have never dropped a girl, I refuse to let them full down and basket toss on a basketball court still!

Besides, as high school cheerleaders shouldn't we be saving the dramatic high--level stunts for the competition floor anyway? How are you supposed to lead a crowd doing basket tosses and full downs anyway? If your crowd wants to see higher difficulty stunts during games, tell them to go to your competitions!

[JTlives4JC]

I personally think we need sanctions or prohibitions from competing in State level competitions for schools who blantantly break the rules with no regard for safety. We also need to get AACCA and NFHS on the same page so the rules are the same. Our state follows NFHS but I am also AACCA certified...frustrating to say the least.

Also, anyone thought about your liability when schools perform illegal stunts in your gym? I asked someone about this and turns out that in their opinion we are negligent if we fail to address this with squads. For example, there are certain rules across the board that qualify as illegal at the high school level, 2-2-1, basket tosses on the gym floor, doubles on the gym floor, or inverted stunts. We should be taking a hard line when these issues arise. I sent a letter out prior to last season addressing this issue and surprisingly had no problems. It was very helpful and alleviated some of my stress. 

One question that I have been contemplating...any feedback on teh types of mats you think are appropriate for baskets on the floor. We have been carrying mats with us to every game for each individual stunt group so we can twist and toss....

[RPCmme]

In our state (I can't speak for other states), which ever school is hosting an event is responsible for ALL spirit infractions.  If a visiting teams performs an illegal stunt and injury occurs, the host school is looked at first. 

I like what coachscoops said about talking to coaches prior to a game.  You can begin on a very positive note by discussing time-outs, practice/warm-up areas, and so forth.  As a visiting coach walking into an unfamiliar venue, I would appreciate someone welcoming me and giving me some information about their hosting facilities.

Here's the protocol in our state for illegal moves (and don't forget about hair, jewelry, gum, and so on):
Step #1:  cheer coach and administration speak to coach and discuss NFHS rules (we're NFHS, not AACCA)
Step #2:  if coach still does not adhere to regulations, cheer coach and administration send memo/letter to coach's administration
Step #3:  contact state board with coach's name and school and note any and all infractions

I've only gone to step #3 once before, and it was a very sensative situation.  However, the illegal moves have stopped, which is what will keep our student athletes safe.

[CoachErin]

Talk about frustrating, I run a choreography company and I did the choreography for a high school in my area (Northern California). Recently I went back to do a follow up with them and the coach asked me about a new stunt they had learned and if I thought she should add it to the routine. The stun they learned was a prep, extension, prep, extension, prep. The extensions bumped down and then tossed and did back tucks while braced by the preps and then caught and when to hitch libs. Ummmmm...excuse me, illegal pyramid! She had no idea and had we not talked about it, she probably would have went right ahead and added it into the routine. The WORST part of it all, they were taught this pyramid by an instructor for a (non-Varsity brands) cheer company that is popular here in California. I just could not believe that an instructor, who should know the rules, would do that. It's one thing when a completely clueless coach does it, but for someone who is supossed to be a professional in the industry just blatantly disregard safety regulations like that is just plain gross negligence and it makes me so mad. Grrrrr.......

[CHSCheercoach]

Erin, Thats rough the teams in cali really dont follow AACCA like they should. Like you I do not let my kids do anything illegal and my kids get so mad, I have been in contact with Jim lord and send him the links to the youtubes or pictures and he will contact the schools.  I wish it was easier to jsut tell the schools but they seem to get so snotty and still dont follow.  Send him and email and he can talk to the school is your best bet for this situation. 

[BigCheerMama]

CHSCheerCoach,
I totally agree with you.  We usually have a toss up with AACCA or NFHS rules, which to follow, etc.  I read & read just to make sure.  Even if it is legal, if I'm not comfortable myself with the stunt or pyramid, I don't allow my kids to do it.  If they get mad, oh well.  I would rather my kids do a clean routine than to do something super extravagant and get hurt.  We have had the issue here in Stockton before where one school did a 3-tier stunt and another did the same with the tippy top fliers doing a drop into waiting catchers.  I politely told them, away from everyone else, that it was illegal & to be very careful because it was their responsibility as a coach for the safety of their program.

[Coach Sadie]

We had our big rival game Friday and the other cheerleaders were throwing back tuck stunts... I mentioned something to the coach and she said that since it wasn't competition and that they felt the girl could perform them well that they let them do it. It was insane! It wasn't our home game.. but if it was I would have sent my Athletic Director over to let them know that they are not allowed to throw those stunts.

[ucaCHEERalum]

What do you mean by "back-tuck stunts"?

Rewinds?  Baskets?

I'm not as up to date on highschool rules as I once was...is there anything out there (stuntwise - flipping baskets are illegal) that they could perform that would be legal and still include a back tuck?

[CoachErin]

ucaCheeralum,
No there are no stunts at the high school level that could include a back tuck and be legal. The only thing we can do that has a head over heels rotation is an assisted forward suspended roll into a cradle or to the performing surface. Or cartwheels, round-offs, backhandspring into a cradle/load position.

[ucaCHEERalum]

Thanks...that is what I thought. 

Operating in college rules for so long now...I need to brush up on my HS rules. 

[candcrew]

CHSCheerCoach,
I totally agree with you.  We usually have a toss up with AACCA or NFHS rules, which to follow, etc.  I read & read just to make sure.  Even if it is legal, if I'm not comfortable myself with the stunt or pyramid, I don't allow my kids to do it.  If they get mad, oh well.  I would rather my kids do a clean routine than to do something super extravagant and get hurt.  We have had the issue here in Stockton before where one school did a 3-tier stunt and another did the same with the tippy top fliers doing a drop into waiting catchers.  I politely told them, away from everyone else, that it was illegal & to be very careful because it was their responsibility as a coach for the safety of their program.

I personally would recommend going with the most restrictive set of "rules".  Having said that there are very few things, if any, each year that AACCA and NFHS don't see eye-to-eye on rule-wise.  For instance one year it was something like AACCA said it was okay to tumble over/with a prop (like a sign or poms) and NFHS said it was illegal. 

CoachSadie--Ugh on the "it's not a competition so it's okay if they do the stunts because they can do them well" attitude.  IMO, that is exactly the reason cheerleading becomes more and more restrictive . . . people don't go with the intent of the rule--keeping participants safe by doing what's appropriate and "allowed".

[CHSCheercoach]

This is so funny this topic is going on because at our playoff game on friday at our home field, the other teams halftime had a three two one flyover (a girl got hurt) and a arbesque with the fold over flip to cradle which i believe is a level 5 allstar skill.  They also did some skirt flipping to our audience that we warned them ahead of time was not ok.  (for numerous reasons, one being were a catholic school and the game was televised.) So after halftime I went over and asked who their coach was and tried to be professional and nice and told them it was illegal stunts we follow aacca and they can not do those here.  The coach who I actually know from cheering in hs, got mean and started yelling out me, called me immature, and other names, said they are coached by a local allstar gym they taught them she had no idea what AACCA is and so on.  I am still debating what to do for this matter if its even worth it to go to their school vice a versa.  All coaches should mandatory have to pass a certification test such as aacca because that was ridiculous.

[CoachErin]

CHSCheerCoach,
Wouldn't it be nice if here in Cali the coaches had to do the AACCA certs? I would LOVE that, it could quite possibly eliminate some of these longtime "coaches" who are really letting their teams be coached by the all star world. I have a hunch I know exactly who you are talking about too, isn't that sad?
I am moving to Washington next year and I have already been doing my research, I found that they have a state association for cheer coaches and from what I understand I will have to complete coaches training. (If anyone is from Washington, please correct me if I'm wrong). I am actually looking forward to it, I am hoping that a program like that helps keep all the coaches on the same page rules wise.

[BigCheerMama]

Coach Erin,
Wouldn't it be great if all cheerleading coaches HAD to be certified instead of suggesting it.  Last school year, our school district had a district wide coaches meeting and there, we were all told that all athletic coaches in california now have to be certified in order to coach.  We had to pay ourselves and do the on-line course.  No pass, No coaching.  I was later told after the meeting that it didn't include cheer.  It's a shame that so much emphasis is put on "athletics" as far as safety but cheerleading is so highly criticized but the higher ups don't care enough to make sure we are doing our certification.  TSK, TSK.  It's a shame that we have to rely on ourselves to make sure our peers are correctly doing their jobs.  It's actually somewhat tiring.  I hate sounding like a self-righteous coach trying to let the other coaches know but I have so many kids that cheer at all the other high schools and am terrified of them getting hurt.  I hate watching an illegal halftime and cringing or holding my breath watching these stunts being thrown. UGH!

[ucaCHEERalum]

You've gotta wonder what rock these people live under?  Do they not have internet access?  You can't do a search for cheerleading without a "safety" article popping up. 

Maybe its ignorance.  Maybe its self-righteousness.  Maybe both...

...but whatever it is, it is always worth it to go tell the other coach what they are doing is wrong and unsafe.  At best, you'll get through to the coach and be the spark that makes them change.  At worst, they'll get mad at you and continue down their illegal road...but you'll sleep a heckuva lot better knowing you did your part.