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Author Topic: Would it be a good match?  (Read 4557 times)
Xmas
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« on: 10/30/07, 06:24 am »

My seven year old daughter has been asked by a reputable stunt coach to coed stunt with a 18 year old senior. I am not sure what to say. On one hand, my daughter will get an early start and learn a great deal. On the other hand, is it just plain wierd? I expressed my concerns to the coach, and he feels it is a great match. Any insight out there?  Thanks
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Kong
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« Reply #1 on: 10/30/07, 08:02 am »

You stated he thought it was a "great match," but what reasons did he give?  Does this senior have any stunting eperience?  Is he (the senior) the one who is pushing this or is the coach?  Is this to benefit your daughter or the senior?  Does your daughter want to learn to co-ed stunt, or is this something that was brought up to you/her by the guy and coach?

Kong
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« Reply #2 on: 10/30/07, 09:10 am »

My daughter presently is involved in a youth stunt group. She is a very strong flyer. She is flexible and has not reached the "I'm scared" stage. She is  tiny...weighing only 40 lbs. The senior is the strongest all round cheerleader in the gym. He has done co-ed stunting previously... I was told he wasn't very serious about it.
He has been "playing" with my daughter for the past six months.
   I told the stunt coach that my daughter (nor myself) have time for missed practices and fooling around.  He assured me that wouldn't happen.The coach told me that the senior wants to work with her because he is used to her technique. (whatever that means...)  He also wants to do more advanced things. With her bieng so small I guess it is easier. The coach also went on to tell me about another coed stunt pair who started off the same way  (maybe not as big of an age gap) and now the senior is at U-Louiville and the younger female has more national championships in stunting that you can count.
   A second coach at the gym that I asked advice  told me that he didn't think it was a great idea... He felt it was to benifit the senior and not my daughter. He used the term "She will be tossed around like a teddy bear"
    My daughter adores this senior and trust him and wants to do it.
  My concern is I have one coach that thinks it's great and one that doesn't. I really want my daughter to learn and do well. Even though she is so young, she has a lot of talent and I'm sure by the time she reaches college the compitition  for flyers will be fierce.
Thank you for any advice you can give.
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jandotcom
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« Reply #3 on: 10/30/07, 09:52 am »

In my opinion, it will be very easy for her to learn bad technique or at least get lazy, simply because his relative strength will compensate for it.  (Same is true for him...he won't have to try nearly as hard with a 40 pounder as he would with a 100 pounder.)  I don't really see how this would benefit either of them in the long run.

Just my $.02.
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Kong
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« Reply #4 on: 10/30/07, 11:08 am »

Jandotcom came up with some good points. 

I'd like to add some other things for you to consider.

My daughter presently is involved in a youth stunt group. She is a very strong flyer. She is flexible and has not reached the "I'm scared" stage.

She should be in a youth stunt group.  She is seven.  Bottom line here is that she should be stunting with a group similar in age to her and working on techniques she needs for her youth stunt group.

She is  tiny...weighing only 40 lbs. The senior is the strongest all round cheerleader in the gym. He has done co-ed stunting previously... I was told he wasn't very serious about it.  He has been "playing" with my daughter for the past six months.
By "strongest all round cheerleader in the gym," and considering "he has done co-ed stunting previously...[but] wasn't very serious about it," I'm assuming you mean he has good dancing abilities, good jumps, good tumbling, and good basing/backing skills in a stunt group.  Why do you think he suddenly got interested in co-ed stunting over the past six months?

I'm not going to knock the guy for trying to learn how to co-ed stunt, but by learning with a 40 pound girl, he's not being very realistic considering he'll be pretty lucky if he gets a partner in college who weighs 2.5 times what your daughter weighs.  He should be learning with someone more the size of who he will be stunting with when he gets to college.

I told the stunt coach that my daughter (nor myself) have time for missed practices and fooling around.  He assured me that wouldn't happen.The coach told me that the senior wants to work with her because he is used to her technique. (whatever that means...)
Translation:  "She's light and effortless to toss.  I can do anything with her."

He also wants to do more advanced things. With her bieng so small I guess it is easier.
Of course it's easier, but it brings up a whole other issue.  Are the "more advanced things" he's going to be doing with her legal at both his level and her level?  The internet is littered with videos of elite stunts/stunt sequences showing a post-pubescent male and a pre-pubescent female doing skills that are everything from legal to illegal on EVERY level.  Again, she should be working on stunts that her youth stunt group.

The coach also went on to tell me about another coed stunt pair who started off the same way  (maybe not as big of an age gap) and now the senior is at U-Louiville and the younger female has more national championships in stunting that you can count.
And just because he's at Louisville doesn't mean he's cheering there and, if he is cheering there, it doesn't mean he is on the competition team and, if he is on the competition team, it doesn't mean he's one of their elite stunters (they design their routine so that some of the guys who are elite tumblers have limited stunting duties and vice versa).  

I'm not going to knock national championships in stunting, but, when it comes down to it, they're just trophies.  If that's why your daughter is involved at this gym, then great, but I don't think most 7 year olds are involved with all stars to simply win "more national championships than you can count."  Besides, there is no reason to believe that stunting with a guy co-ed will translate to prowess with her youth stunt group...especially if she's working on co-ed techniques (which can be very different from all-girl techniques) and if she's learning illegal stunts or, at the very least, stunts that she cannot use with her group.  You mentioned her flexibility and fearlessness.  Those two characteristics will allow her to keep advancing whether she's stunting co-ed or not.

A second coach at the gym that I asked advice  told me that he didn't think it was a great idea... He felt it was to benifit the senior and not my daughter. He used the term "She will be tossed around like a teddy bear"
I often use the term "rag doll," but the point is the same and I very much agree with this second coach.  What are the benefits for your daughter?  I realize she's excited, but beyond that, how will she benefit from this experience?

My daughter adores this senior and trust him and wants to do it.
The vast majority of male cheerleaders are adored by the girls at the gym.  They're an anomalie.  They often have an easier time with skills because they're generally stronger than females (especially as they get older) and they're generally less fearful.  She should trust him...taking into account her size and the fact that there should be a spotter on the stunts if they do stunt.  But, aside from her adoration of him, why else would she want to co-ed stunt?

My concern is I have one coach that thinks it's great and one that doesn't. I really want my daughter to learn and do well. Even though she is so young, she has a lot of talent and I'm sure by the time she reaches college the compitition  for flyers will be fierce.
Is she not learning and doing well now?  Her talent will continue to develop as she gets older and she gets more experience.  There will be plenty of opportunity for her to learn to co-ed stunt (with people her own age or closer to her age) as she progresses through her career.  She has over 10 years before she is going to be going off to college.

If you want my opinion, I think you should tread very carefully here and take into consideration everything starting with your daughter's overall safety.  There are other issues to consider which I have not even gone into here which others may comment on as well.

Good luck with your decision.

Kong
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4merfballjock
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« Reply #5 on: 11/01/07, 12:01 pm »

I would like to think I know what I'm doing with stunting, so I'm going to throw my two cents in if you don't mind....

I think it's a little on the strange side, yes.  If the guy really wants to learn co-ed stunting with proper technique, he should seek out a partner of about his age who does have the experience that can actually teach them.  When two people learn together, they may be able to hit all the stunts, but his and her technique will not improve.  also, like it's been mentioned before, that amount of weight difference is absurd.  If I had a 40 pound partner I could do any stunt in the world, I know I could.  Does that mean I can do any stunt in the world now with the partner I have? No, she is a little heavier than 40 pounds, though she is extremely talented, the physics of the couple aren't going to work out.

I don't think it's a terrible idea, they cheer at the same gym, people mess around at the gym stunting all the time.  I'm 21 and I'm a big guy, and I've stunted with the itty bitty 10 year olds at the gym, it's fun, but it doesn't make me any better.  Because of that, with both of them learning, I don't see much benefit from the two of them stunting together.
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coolcoach
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« Reply #6 on: 11/01/07, 12:46 pm »

I'm going to be blunt. It's not a good match. As a coach, my opinion is that this young man needs to stunt with girls of his own age range (like HS age girls) so he can learn proper technique. You don't learn a whole lot at 18 stunting with a 40 lb little girl, there's no difficulty to it.

Also, if she's stunting with someone who is 18, he will most likely want to do stunts that are not youth level. Your daughter is very small and could be easily injured attempting something advanced like a rewind. I also don't think a 7 yr old should be interacting with an 18 yr old on a level like a stunt partner. She might be an advanced cheerleader, but maturity wise, she's still seven.

I know sometimes our kids show passion for something and do really well at it, so we want to help them get ahead. But there are some situations where I think we should draw the line. This is one of them. 
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« Reply #7 on: 11/05/07, 08:54 pm »

I think coolcoach said it best.  I have seen videos online of these college-aged guys tossing around 5-7 year old females.  It just isn't... something.  Sure, the fliers must be great to have that kind of trust, very obviously have great flexibility, and are elite (especially for their age), but the bases are gaining nothing.  Especially in a co-ed college tryout when they will have to toss a college aged girl.  Too much risk, not enough reward.
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« Reply #8 on: 11/09/07, 07:30 am »

After considering all of your posts, My daughter and I have decided to decline in participating with the senior coed. Thank you for all your advice. It was well given.
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Evergreen
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« Reply #9 on: 12/27/07, 11:01 pm »

Smart decision!
As a mom to a 7 year old, a former college cheerleader, a former gymnast and a gym and cheer coach....there is no way that I would ever allow this to even be considered in my gym. A 7 year old and an 18 year old are in two different worlds......besides all of the concerns mentioned by previous posters, there is the issue of what your child would be exposed to.  I know that when I got to college and started co-ed stunting, when stunts would drop or go wrong-the curse words would fly!  It's something that some 18 year olds do, and can be an automatic reaction.

It's so nice to see a parent do what is right for their child and not what would give them bragging rights amongst the other parents. Good for you! Smiley
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Tagzurit
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« Reply #10 on: 05/10/09, 07:24 pm »

honestly i think your over thinking it.
i am 16 and when i learned how to coed
stunt i was 13 and learned from a 22 year old.
now that im 16 i stunt with 22 year olds still
and i have never learned more.. becuase there
older they obviously know a little bit more then
i do or in your case your daughter becuase there
older and have been doing it longer..i understand
why you would be concered about the age difference
but if this guy is trying to learn new stuff he is going
to want to learn on a smaller girl that he is  used
to so when he gets to the heavier one he knows exactly
what to do and he wont have to adjust as much.
 i think you should totaly let her do it.it cant hurt!
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Miss April
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« Reply #11 on: 05/11/09, 07:30 am »

...if this guy is trying to learn new stuff he is going
to want to learn on a smaller girl that he is  used
to ...

As a soon-to-be parent, this is where I really see the point of the original poster.  I really would not want anyone putting my daughter at risk for injury so he can learn new stunts with a lighter guinea pig.

And I would think getting used to doing stunts with a 50 pound (7 year old) girl, he would have to do a great deal of adjusting to then have to learn with a 100 pound girl his own age.
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« Reply #12 on: 05/11/09, 10:25 am »



I wanted to comment on this thread long ago, but it had been dead for so long...thanks for giving me the opportunity Tag.  That being said...

Totally agree with you April...THIS IS A HORRIBLE MATCH!

Talk about bad habits being formed all the way around.  Bad for the girl (she'll mroe than likely develop "little-girl syndrome"), bad for the guy (who won't know what hit him when he makes the jump from the kiddy table to eating with adults)...and bad for whoever has to coach these kids next (IF they make the next team they tryout for - someone will have to break them of their bad habits). 

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