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Author Topic: Cheer Coach vs. Cheer Coach and daughter  (Read 2579 times)
catscheer75
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« on: 03/30/09, 08:21 pm »

I will try to make this short as possible.
A little background first.  I have coached cheer since 1998.  I am also a nationally certified judge.  I am 38 and my youngest daughter is 14.  She will be starting high school in August 2009.
I previously coached cheer in the school district where we live and my children attend school.  Because I have a great passion for cheerleading, i cheered from grade 4 all through college, I want the cheer program where we live to be amazing.  The school system cares little about the local cheer programs.  A few years ago I did a massive amount of interviewing, researching, etc... on the benefits of hiring qualified, education, certified coaches, especially at all of our high schools.  I was basically met with a door slammed in my face.
One of the reasons I decided to press the issue of either replacing or educating our entire system's cheer coaches was because our local school district continues to implament new rules each time there is a serious cheerleading accident (onlu one rule has been passed down from the state).
There were many accidents in our school system the year I decided to press this issue.  One of the serious injuries occured at one of the high schools.  A girl was being taught how to twist cradle from a full lip (she had NEVER done a twist cradle before in her life and had actually never even done a straight right from a lib before).  The coaches had no idea about stunt progession and this girl fell, landed on the side of her ankle.  She ended up having surgery and had to have a rod placed in her ankle.   This did not happen at my school.   I am happy to say that in my 11 years of coaching cheerleading,from elementary to high school, the only injury that occured on my watch was when a few of the ball players came into the gym during one of our practices, threw a football and accidentally hit our pyramid. 
So, with all the accidents occuring in our system, I decided to get all coaches either educated/trained or, if they refused, replaced.  WeLL WeLL WeLL I ruffled the wrong feathers.  I was placed on the "black list".  Since I am not from around here, little did I know that the JV coach at that one high school is the daughter of the former superintendent.  Oops!
Today, 3 years later, the coaches are still no more educated than they were when I made my big oops.  Unfortunately for me and my daughter, we live in the district of that JV coaches high school. 
I no longer coach in that school system.  I got a new teaching position in a neighboring community.  I am now a coach in my new school (of almost 3 years).  My daughter still has to atttend the school where we live.  The transfer fees are OUTRAGEOUS.
Now a little about my daughter.  I think she is pretty darn good and it is probably from years of my constant "coaching" of her skills.  She recently tried out for a nationally ranked all-star cheer program (they just won nationals).  Since she is only 14 at the time of tryouts, there were 5 different teams she could have been selected for.  The teams were either Junior Level 2, Junior Level 5, Senior Level 3, Senior Level 4 or Senior Level 5 Co-ed.  There were over 350 kids that tried out for one of their 8 teams.  The gym is owned and coached by several NCAA division 1 former coed cheerleaders (a team that has won nationals many times).
My daughter was one of only two 14 year olds selected for their Senior Level 5 Co-ed team.  She can do all of your basic tumbling skills, front/back handspring, front/back tucks.  She also has her full and is now working on her double.  She is a flyer that can do all full lib variations on both legs, double downs, full up, tictoc (still a little shaky on this one).
Okay so HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM:
About a month ago she decided she wants to try out for high school cheer, under the coaches at the high school where the majority of cheerleading accidents occur in this school system.  Many of her friends cheer at that school already and she mainly wants to do it for the bonding, although she loves cheerleading.
We agreed to let her.  She went to clinics 2 weeks ago.  Learned all the material.  I scrutinized her, so on and so forth.  I told her if she was going to try out she was going to do her absolute best.
FYI: There are 4 judges at tryouts.  They are the JV and Varsity coaches and 2 of their friends.
We were given the score sheet the week of clinics, so the kids could know what they needed to do. 
The breakdown is as follows: 
Group Cheer (10 points and includes a standing back handspring - only half credit given if not handspring is performed),
Group Chant (5 points),
School Song (5 points),
Individual Cheer (10 points - may not include any standing or running tumbling),
Running Tumbling Pass (5 points and must include a minimum of a round-off handspring),
Standing Tumbling Pass (5 points and must include at least three continuous back handsprings),
Standing Back Handspring (5 points and must land of both feet and not fall to the knees)
Standing Tuck (5 points)
Sideline Dance (5 points)
Toe Touch (2 points)
Right, Left Hurdler (2 points each)
Toe Touch Back Handspring (2 points and no points given if back handspring isn't done correclty)
Triple Jump Combo (2 points)
Motion Technique (20 points)
Appearance (5 points)
Spirit (5 points)
Overall Ability (5 points)
= 100 total points
A note at the bottom of the sheet states that in order to be placed on the JV or Varsity team, you must have a minimum of 80 points.
The coaches also handed out information that states that freshmen to seniors may be selected for the Varsity tea, freshmen to juniors may be selected for the JV team and only freshmen are on the freshmen team.
So she does the clinic thing, feels confident because several of the girls can only do a max of a round-off one... a few can't even do a standing back handspring.  During the clinics the coaches had the girls do some stunting (hold your breathe) but everything went all right.  All they did were full extensions with a straight cradle.  One of the little girls that is not able to tumble is also a flyer (from her middle school).  She is only able to do a prep level.  She is unable to cradle, she has to hold the hands of a front spot to get down.
So the kids tryout, my daughter makes freshmen cheer (somehow she didn't have 80 points) and the little girl that can not stunt of tumble made JV.  I actually thought is was an error because without tumbling, the highest possible score could only be a 73.   Fortunately (or unfortunately) my daughter wasn't the only one placed on the freshmen that had much higher skills and technqiue than two of those chosen for JV.
I was just totally confused.  At first I thought it was because of what happened with me 3 years earlier but since a few other talented girls were in the same situation I decided to find out what I could.
Well, the answers I found sure shocked the pants off of me.  I did find out that the JV and Varsity coach has said numerous times that no child of mine would ever cheer for either of them.  Their is a different (new) coach for the freshmen team.  Apparently they have said to the older cheerleaders that they aren't even going to give me the opportunity to even look at them like they are doing something wrong.  So on to the next girl that is extremely talented (she has competed at Level 9 gymnastics, USAG and won several state and national events).  Her mother was convicted of sexual misconduct with a minor back in October (she no longer lives with or near her mother).  The victim is somehow connected to the JV coach and both the JV and Varsity coaches have told some of the other cheer parents that they would never select a sex offenders daughter to cheer on the JV or Varsity team.
As for the little girl that can no stunt, tumble, etc... that was a big surprise to me.  How did she have 80 points when she automatically lost 27 points for not being able to tumble?  This answer was more schocking than the previous ones.  Her mother and one of the elementary cheer coaches contacted the JV coach (who just happens to teach at the same school as the elementary cheer coach) to set up private lessons for the little girl. This began back in December.  The elementary coach and the JV coach told the girl and her mother that they COULD NOT under any circumstance let anyone know that she (the JV coach) was being paid to give her private instruction.  WOW!!!!  I hear (just a rumor) that the girl and her mom ended up paying the JV coach over $500 for those 3 months of instruction.
I am still friends with many cheer coaches in that system.  One is a really close friend of mine.  She was out the other night and saw one of the judges.  She asked the judge (confidentially) what happened at the school tryouts (for my daughters high school).  My friend ended up telling me what was said. The judge told my friend that “If you ever tell anyone what I am about to tell you, I will deny saying any of it”.  The judge told her that “the coaches just brought us in to give the appearance of fairness.  They had already selected who they wanted before we ever started the tryout process.  We were told that we needed to look interested and score according to the way they said. They gave us instructions before each group or individual came in to tryout”.  The judge also told her that “ there were a few freshmen girls that really impressed us but we were told to score them low because they had to make the freshmen team and nothing higher”.  My friend asked her why she agreed to follow this process and she was told that “we do each other favors.  It might not be right but that’s how it is.”  Se also asked the judge about the little girl who could not do any tumbling, how she made the JV team when several other girls were much better.  The judge responded “We (the other independent judge) were both confused as to why they would want her on the JV team when there were many other girls much more talented”. 
So now I am beyond furious.  I am outraged, furious, ticked, sickened, etc... I can not afford to transfer her. She wants this (and I know she needs the sideline/ballgame experience to cheer in college) but I am beside myself with ANGER.
They do have a new principal this year.  I know that in the past the administration, school board and other backed up both of these coaches but I seriously doubt that they know about the comments made and the basic "pay me and I will put your daughter on my team".  I want so badly to let them all know but at the same time, my daughter will most likely have to stay at that school for the next 4 years.  If I speak out, she will definitely never make a team again. 
I have judged numerous elementary, middle and high school tryouts (as well as competitions).  At the schools, I have had a few coaches try to "nudge" me in the direction they wanted me to score but I never did anything other than what I saw.   I would not lower or boost a score.  I have been doing this for over 11 years and can't believe that these coaches are doing this to kids (my daughter and others). Maybe I just have a reputation of being fair and unbiased so I haven't encountered coaches like this before but geezzzzzzzzz
WHAT SHOULD I DO?HuhHuhHuh?
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Kong
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« Reply #1 on: 03/30/09, 08:45 pm »

I think your question is a rhetorical one.  There really is nothing you can do in this situation.  I believe your assessment is correct.  If you ruffle feathers at this point in time, your daughter will not ever cheer there.  The coaches seem to have themselves a nice little system of picking their team.  A lot of coaches are forced to use outside judges to "give the appearance of fairness."  Most coaches find it ridiculous that they have to use outside judges to pick their team when no sport team has to do that.  It's even more ridiculous when the system can STILL be completely manipulated.

I think the question you have to ask at this point is if you even want your daughter cheering there.  What type of experience is she going to have if these two coaches are holding such a grudge against you?  Further, do you really want to put the safety of your daughter in the hands of coaches who got completely bent out of shape because you wanted them to be safety certified?

I think your best bet at this point in time is to have your daughter continue her career at the all-star gym.  If you have been coaching for eleven years, you can definitely help her pick up on the skills necessary for college that she will be missing out on as an all-star athlete.

Kong
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candcrew
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« Reply #2 on: 03/31/09, 02:42 pm »

I'm going to echo Kong's sentiment here and say do you really want your daughter participating in a program that historically has been lax on following correct safety protocol?  Can you, in good conscience, allow her to participate in a program that has ignored safety?  Are willing willing to take a chance on your daughter's life/health?  She's already on an all-star squad so she'll get her "cheer fix" from that + you can help her with the preparation for college tryouts should she desire to go that route.  As for doing it for the "bonding" and because her friends do it, she can still be friends with these girls . . . and if they were to dump her because she isn't on the squad, I'd question the strength of those "bonds".

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SoCalCheerCoach2
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« Reply #3 on: 03/31/09, 03:21 pm »

I agree with everything mentioned so far.  Following correct safety rules/progressions is clearly important to you (as it should be to all coaches, cheerleaders, and cheer parents) so even considering to allow your daughter to participate in a program that doesn't, seems a bit contradictory.  Not to mention, where will your daughter be after her Freshman year?  If the JV/Varsity Coaches wouldn't put her on their teams this year, what makes you think they will next year?  And even if they did, I wouldn't trust them to be responsible for my daughter.  If they are petty and irreprehensible enough to cheat their tryouts for their own pathetic grudges, I wouldn't be surprised if they would purposefully put your daughter in unsafe situations and/or make her life a living hell.

You said that your daughter has to stay at the current school because the transfer fees are outrageous.  Well, in my opinion the best way to look at the situation is what is more important: saving the money or taking a chance on your daughter's safety/well-being/enjoyment in the long run?
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catscheer75
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« Reply #4 on: 04/01/09, 06:17 am »

I know what you all are saying.  I really do agree.  The all-star cheer program is EXCELLENT but I know she needs the game and sideline experience for college, at least we did back in my day.
I don't deal much (if at all) with college cheer anymore.  I know that the skills my daughter has in tumbling and stunting are what is needed in college but don't coaches still want kids with game experience?  I guess I should look up my old coach and ask her about this.
I have the same thoughts about her trying out for cheer next year.  I have two hopes... the first is highly unlikely, yet is still a hope, that the coaches will be replaced.  My other hope is that my daughter will dislike it so much this year that she won't want to do it next year.
It just makes me so mad that these coaches get away with doing this year after year to child after child. :-(
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cobwebbedroses
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« Reply #5 on: 04/01/09, 12:33 pm »

The coaches also handed out information that states that freshmen to seniors may be selected for the Varsity tea, freshmen to juniors may be selected for the JV team and only freshmen are on the freshmen team.

Assuming everything continues to be ran the same, and the Var and JV coaches refuse to take your daughter on their squads, then after her freshman year, she would not get to cheer at all, because the only teams she would be eligible for as a sophomore are Var and JV and those coaches won't take her!

I hope that the new freshman team coach is different from the other two and runs things safely. I'm guessing that your daughter knows enough about cheer to tell if her coach is running the proper progressions. Or you should be able to figure that out by asking her about her practices. Assuming the freshman coach is safe, she'll have one year of sideline experience (not much but at least some) and she can stay in all-star cheer through high school or until new coaches are hired.

If she already knows she wants to do college cheer, and knows some colleges she wants to apply to, go ahead and call the coaches at the schools she wants to attend and ask about the sideline experience. That way you can be more sure of what her specific school will want.

If everything you've heard about those two coaches (and the other conference coaches) is true, they're actions will end up biting them back in the booty eventually! They sound horrible!
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coachamie
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« Reply #6 on: 04/01/09, 01:36 pm »

From the sounds of it the coaches have been there for a while. The chances of them being fired or leaving after this year doesn't sound very likely. I agree that girls need sideline experience for college. Most college coaches don't want to spend time teaching girls how to do that, they should already know, but its also not that hard to pick up. It sounds as if your daughter is really good. I don't know if that is natural or if its just from years of training, but being that good I would assume she could pick up on what she needs to know with her year experience on the freshman team. You could also take her to college games so she can watch the cheerleaders and see how they act and what they do on the sidelines.
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« Reply #7 on: 04/01/09, 06:27 pm »

I know what you all are saying.  I really do agree.  The all-star cheer program is EXCELLENT but I know she needs the game and sideline experience for college, at least we did back in my day.
I don't deal much (if at all) with college cheer anymore.  I know that the skills my daughter has in tumbling and stunting are what is needed in college but don't coaches still want kids with game experience?  I guess I should look up my old coach and ask her about this.
I have the same thoughts about her trying out for cheer next year.  I have two hopes... the first is highly unlikely, yet is still a hope, that the coaches will be replaced.  My other hope is that my daughter will dislike it so much this year that she won't want to do it next year.
It just makes me so mad that these coaches get away with doing this year after year to child after child. :-(

Call a few colleges in your area and find out how they select their squads. Sideline cheer is not that difficult to learn. Most colleges would kill to have the skills your daughter possesses.

Support your child's wishes this year to cheer at school and make it as positive an experience as possible.

Don't talk about the other coaches in her presence, at all. If it gets really bad, you can always come here to vent  Grin

If you can, speak to the coaches and the AD in a conference. Let them know your concerns in an adult manner and then LET IT GO! If things haven't changed at the end of the year, put your foot down and make your daughter cheer all stars only. Whether you mean to or not, your attitude toward the coaches will put your daughter in a very difficult position. She will have to respect her coaches, but how can she do that if being around them makes you so upset? High school passes too quickly to try to buck the system the whole time. 

Like you said... maybe the coaches will be replaced and all of this drama will be for nothing. I'm wishing you and your child the best.

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Cheers,
Pauliana
dmjshriver
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« Reply #8 on: 04/06/09, 08:30 am »

Unfortunately it's coaches like these that have given cheerleading and coaching some bad press!! There are so many great, talented, educated and fair coaches out there trying to make this sport better, and then there are "coaches" like these (I use that term loosely)!! I have similar "coaches" in my area, and have realized that there is really nothing you can do to help them "see the light" or help educate them. They mostly coach out of their own egos, so they have little use for professional organizations or education to help them become better and more efficient, safer cheerleading coaches. I know your daughter loves cheerleading, but allowing her to become a part of a program that you do not respect and you know is underminding the sport is reallly what is allowing them to keep doing what they are doing. You might feel you are robbing your daughter of cheering at school, but helping her to see the bigger picture is a better life lesson, and will probably be a better cheerleading decision. My daughter now cheers in college at a Div 1 school; she looked at many big programs and there were never sideline requirements as part of the tryout process. They do require the girls to learn and perform a school chant and/or cheer, but this is something they can pick up at the tryout clinics. If your daughter has performance experience in all-star competitions, she will be able to project that outgoing, crowd appeal they are looking for. I would suggest keeping her in her more challenging all-star program, and look for clinics at colleges she is considering applying to. Many colleges hold open clinics in the spring as an opportunity for girls to come and "look" at the program and coaches to "look" at potential candidates. Also with college cheerleading becoming so competitive it is more important to have awesome tumbling and advanced stunting skills. It is pretty much a requirement to have a full and standing tuck on a competitive college team, and punch fronts, and multiple skill tumbling passes are a plus. And coed experience is so extremely helpful if she plans on trying out for a coed team. Most competitive college squads require extreme flexibility in heelstretches, etc., doubles out of all body positions, rewinds, and great multi-skill basket tosses; like kick doubles, tucks, layouts, etc. It is very hard to get experience in these skills without gaining them on an all-star team because many of these skills are illegal at the high school level. It would be great if your daughter could do both, but it seems like she will just get caught up in "the drama" which could adversely effect how much she loves cheerleading. So I think you need to take a stand and find a suitable alternative to the high school teams, so as to not "feed the ego machine" in your town. I'm sure these ladies felt great satisfaction in seeing your daughter and yourself compromise your beliefs that they are poor, unsafe, unfair coaches by showing up at "their" tryouts, and felt even greater satisfaction in denying her acceptance on the JV and Varsity teams. I would have her pass on the freshman team, and explain to the freshman coach that is not a reflection on your opinion of her, but that you do not support the way the lead (varsity and JV coaches) have set-up and maintain the cheerleading program. Explain that if the lead coaching situation should change during your daughter's high school years, she would love the opportunity to tryout again. Beacause even if the freshman coach has a different philosophy, most JV and freshman coaches must take the direction of the varsity coach who is usually ultimately responsible for the entire program. It's hard to believe that these ladies will allow the freshman coach to run her "own" program, if it is so different from their own. That would at the heart threaten their "control", which is what they thrive on. And if the freshman coach runs her program after the varsity model, what kind of program is that anyway??? Allowing her to participate in an unsafe program could also ultimately result in injury from minor to extreme, which could end her cheerleading career, or at the least slow it down tremendously, or could result in "mental blocks"!  Good luick in whatever you decide!!
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ucaCHEERalum
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« Reply #9 on: 04/06/09, 12:23 pm »

Ok...I've been waiting to weigh in on a few things here.   I have a headache and I may not be thinking very straight...bare with me as I hash this out...

1.)  You could go a couple of different routes here:
A.) She cheers her "freshman" year on the "freshman" squad...in the grand scheme of things...that doesn't sound all that bad to me.  Careful not to let your pride (yours and your daughters collectively) get the best of you here. 
B.) She goes the straight allstar route.   Being a collegiate coach myself I have to tell you that the majority of colleges, Division 1 or other, DO NOT COMPETE or compete very rarely.  In my opinion college cheerleading has started getting back to its roots, games being most important - and for that reason cheering in school (for someone other than yourself) is very important.  Skills are great to have...but when it comes to games, personality, knowing how to rally a crowd, and the proper way to cheer for a team is most important.

From my own personal experience, Allstar cheerleaders have the most difficult time transitioning to college cheerleaders.  Now I know that I'm generalizing but...having questionable technique, zero in-game experience, and a
lack of school spirit don't seem like attributes of a person I want representing my program or the University.  In the seven or so years I've coached at this level I've not had one former all-star (that only did allstars in highschool) make it through to graduation as a cheerleader.  Most don't understand the role that collegiate cheerleaders should play at their school and it winds up being a dissapointment to them.

C.) Let her do both.  She'll get the experience she needs and be able to hone solid skills in prep for college.

2.)  You have to be careful about setting a precedence for your daughter here.  The world is full of tweeners, teeners, and twenty-somethings that already think that they are entitled to whatever they darn well please.  As parents we have the task of sifting through the garbage to find the message we want to send.

Are you telling your daughter that its ok to run from adversity?  That civilized folks can't work things out?  To not experience something because of a few bad eggs?  Or are you telling her that life isn't always fair and that you need to work hard, be the best you can be, and make the absolute most out of the hand we're dealt? 

I say you let your daughter decide which way to go and support HER with every fiber of your being.  If it means not bashing the other coaches...so be it.  Highschool is hard enough as it is...do your best not to add to the drama.

3.)  Safety.  One option, if the coach in question is really practicing techniques that are so unsafe that you are worried for your daughters well-being...capture it on video...should be pretty easy to do now that everyone and their mom has atleast a camera phone.  Take that to the AD with a copy of the rules the coach is violating and tell them that this has to stop.  If that doesn't get their attention take it to the school board.

Be careful how you go about this though...you have to make sure that they come down on the coaches and not the program.  You'd hate for the school to lose its cheering privileges.

- -

I don't envy you.  You're in a tough spot. 

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dmjshriver
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« Reply #10 on: 04/07/09, 05:50 am »

I'm suprised to read UCAcheeralum post that he looks at sideline experience as the most important trait in selecting his college team. Obviously, how much personality you can exude during the cheers at games or during a competition are vital to a candidates resume, but I have found almost all college teams, competitive or non-competitive have advanced to elite level skills posted on their websites for tryout requirements. Even during games most squads are performing advanced and/or elite level skills (tumbling as well as stunting). I've seen most girls who do not have the basic tumbling and stunting skills cut in the initial rounds, and then the final selections depend on their ability to "project". There are several colleges in my area that are taking girls with basic tumbling skills, but even most of those list "tumbling a plus" in their tryout packets.
Secondly, it seems that trying to video or catch them practicing unsafe techniques will not do anymore good in getting the coaches to put safety as the priority of their program than what she has tried to do in the past. But if catscheer feels like it would be productive and she could actually get the coaches, AD and or school board to "pay attention", maybe it would be worth the effort. I know I live in a small town and the "old boys network" seems to have the run of most things, and some people are deeply connected. The AD's in our area don't want "to deal with cheerleading" and all of it's drama. This is a quote by my own athletic director, who has resonnated that most AD's in this area feel the "mama-drama" is exclusive to cheerleading, and they just don't want to deal with it. Our conference has gone from 9 teams to 5 over the last 3 years because A) the AD's didn't want to and didn't know how to deal with all the drama and complaints, B) they couldn't find or understand the importance of hiring qualified, educated coaches and/or C) so many kids left the programs because the unqualified coaches could not keep up with the ever-changing and increasing challanges and competitiveness of cheerleading today. While I understand, and I certainly try to put school spirit and athletic support as the main goal of my high school program, you cannot completely avoid the competitive side of cheerleading, at least not in my area. We are mandated to compete in our conference competition and the schools are fined if they do not comply and fined at any point up to the state level thet a team does not attend a competition they qualify for. So many girls whose coaches have not kept up their education and those who run a more lax program have had so many girls leave because the program was a "joke" at their school. One school in our area even appeared in a reality show to try and improve their image at school. And I find that most of the girls get a real sense of satisfaction in competing and sharing those interests with other cheerleading teams during competitions. These are some of the challenges we all face in this sport as it is being defined and redefined. Is cheerleading a sport? Should teams be performing elite level skills which require such diligence and education from coaches. How do we get those who still see it as an activity than "anyone can do" and "anyone can coach" to take responsibility to get the education and safety training that should be required to coach this demanding sport? I would love to know how catscheer makes out and if she has any luck in getting them to "see the light" I might be able to use whatever works in my town!!
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ucaCHEERalum
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« Reply #11 on: 04/07/09, 08:32 am »

DMJ -

Is sideline cheerleadingTHE MOST IMPORTANT thing???  I suppose this depends on the squad you are trying out for...but if it isn't...it should be right up there.  Being a college cheerleader is much more than doing cool tricks.  (And between you and me - we do some cool schtuff)  Its about being a leader in the University community, making appearances at middle schools, in parades, talking with alumni, meeting with prospective students, performing during games.

My squad made over 80 official appearances last year alone...we're up to 63 this year and we still aren't done yet.  Guess how many of those were competitions - ZERO.  Not because we aren't competitive or good...but because that is what cheerleaders do...they promote the school.

Think about it.

Lets say that your football team plays 11 games and both your Men's & Women's Basketball teams play 30 games.  You are looking at 70+ appearances if you travel to all of those away games.  Lets just say you are at all home games - or roughly half the games out there - you're still talking 35+ games.  Much more important that you are well rounded and have school spirit than able to double down from your full-up scale.

If we had competed last year that would have represented 1.2% of our offical appearances.

You say:
...I have found almost all college teams, competitive or non-competitive have advanced to elite level skills posted on their websites for tryout requirements. Even during games most squads are performing advanced and/or elite level skills (tumbling as well as stunting).

As for "Elite" skills...this depends on what you consider elite and what you consider standard.  All of my girls are required to fly in baskets that flip and twist, in 2 1/2 high pyramids, and of course partner stunts.  All must be able to tumble...but again, how many of these skills (whether you consider them elite or not) will be used at games.  10% maybe?  The best way to lead a crowd in the tens of thousands is with signs, good motions, and strong voices...not doing rewind cupies. 

In addition...most of a cheerleaders' time at games is spent during basketball season...for the simple fact that its a longer season and there are more games.  All skills allowed at basketball games are what I consider "super-basic".  No twisting, no flipping into stunts, no pyramids or one-arm stunts.  No twisting during tumbling passes.  Again, more emphasis on programs to lead cheers instead of show-off.  Can't tell you how many times I bark at my kids for doing toss arabesque in the middle of a band-cheer during a :30 timeout.  "You can't do motions from an arabesque...what're you thinking?!"  "Get that extension up there!"

THERE ARE FAR FEWER "COMPETITIVE" COLLEGIATE SQUADS than you realize.  There are 342 NCAA Division 1 schools and seven more going through reclassification.  Three Hundred and Forty-Two.  Guess how many of those colleges sent in a tape or competed at UCA or NCA Nationals?  Less than a third (if my addition skills serve me correctly).

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Ok...I feel better now.



« Last Edit: 04/07/09, 08:39 am by ucaCHEERalum » Logged

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coachamie
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« Reply #12 on: 04/07/09, 11:03 pm »

I have to agree with ucacheeralum here. As a recently former college cheerleader the majority of my life was spent at games, pep rallies, alumni events, philanthropy events, scheduled appearances, etc. This is exactly how I would say 99% of colleges are ran. At games we didn't (sometimes weren't allowed depending on the surface) throw our elite skills. I did more toss hands or extensions in college than probably anything else. If you ask a lot of college cheerleaders they will agree competitions and skills are important, but really most schools do 1 or 2 competitions a year, and like ucacheeralum said upward of 70+ other appearances that don't really require anything but basic cheer skills.

Obviously, how much personality you can exude during the cheers at games or during a competition are vital to a candidates resume, but I have found almost all college teams, competitive or non-competitive have advanced to elite level skills posted on their websites for tryout requirements.


I also have to point out that its not just personality that counts towards sideline experience. Anyone, especially an allstar can give you personality in a chant. Sideline experience that girls are expected to know in college that I guarantee most coaches will not spend there time on are things like knowing when to cheer and when not to, what chant to call at what time, how to work a sign, etc.

Of course there are always exceptions to every rule. And I can't say just because a girl did only all stars that she won't have the sideline abilities but it is a pretty common thing that I have seen. Even the middle school girls I coach I can tell the difference at games between my allstars and the girls that came from the little league park.
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