New Study

[candcrew]

LCSD--If there are larger school districts that have a trainer or 2, you may try contacting one of them.  Last summer when we had our state run clinic (with UCA staff as instructors), one of the trainers for a larger school in Kansas City came in and did a whole afternoon with us on weight/strength training using therabands.  He made the comment that if any of us wanted to get together and do an injury/athletic training class (prevention, identification of potential injuries, etc.)  He'd be glad to do it.  I didn't attend but know that several coaches did go to his sessions. 

FWIW--I guess I'm lucky that locally and, even to a degree, statewide it has been recognized that cheer coaches need first aid & athletic training.  In 1992, I went to the state one-day clinic and we had a trainer there that actually had us tape ankles.  When I coached track I knew how to wrap, not because of being a track coach/having track coach training but, because of my cheer coach experience.

Coachamie--We've actually moved our FB cheer practice to the morning due to facilities issues.  (Plus practice from 6:30-8 a.m. actually works better for me.)  During BB we're relegated to the stage--only area with a wooden floor outside the gym.  Luckily, it has next to no traffic and is clear/large enough that we can do small stunts.  For "bigger stunts" like extensions & libs, we usually can get the BB coaches to give us a decent, safe part of the gym for 30+ minutes.  Not ideal but it works.  We're still a LONG ways off from having another gym or 2 and when they are put in, I'm sure that we'll be going to a.m. practices as the HS BB teams will have "dibs" on those facilities.  Grrr . . . on the wrestling room.  Are there any "old" wrestling mats anywhere that would serve to cover all the holes & metal--BTW wouldn't the METAL be tearing up the mats on the underside?

[LCSD1 coach]

I live in Wyoming and the closest shool to us is 45 min away it is no bigger than we are.  There are no large schools within 100 miles of me.

[coachamie]

Coachamie--We've actually moved our FB cheer practice to the morning due to facilities issues.  (Plus practice from 6:30-8 a.m. actually works better for me.)  During BB we're relegated to the stage--only area with a wooden floor outside the gym.  Luckily, it has next to no traffic and is clear/large enough that we can do small stunts.  For "bigger stunts" like extensions & libs, we usually can get the BB coaches to give us a decent, safe part of the gym for 30+ minutes.  Not ideal but it works.  We're still a LONG ways off from having another gym or 2 and when they are put in, I'm sure that we'll be going to a.m. practices as the HS BB teams will have "dibs" on those facilities.  Grrr . . . on the wrestling room.  Are there any "old" wrestling mats anywhere that would serve to cover all the holes & metal--BTW wouldn't the METAL be tearing up the mats on the underside?

The metal does tear holes on the underside so they have these cardboard things that they put in between. There aren't any old mats yet. They are ordering a whole new floor this summer which means those mats don't matter anyways. They really just don't like sharing their space. I just got word that they will have a new coach next year so hopefully he will be a little more willing to share. Unfortunately our stage is concrete and small, and mornings don't work for me because I live 45 minutes from the school! Our high school is trying to convince their ad they need a spring floor so I'm hoping they win that battle so we can practice there when they aren't using it!

[MascotNet]

Cheerleading, like other sports, doesn't have to be competitive, either.  Club sports status is available.  My college once had a competitive cheer team and a "spirit squad" that didn't stunt but cheered sidelines and danced.

Heck, there's even a few colleges that offer "Sprint football" - weight restrictions and light tackling, to lower insurance rates, lower budgets, and encourage participation.

I think cheer coaches should consider all options when facing a new season. 

[ucaCHEERalum]

I'm completely opposed to these "spirit squads" that take the skill out of being a "cheerleader".  I can only hope that this trend DOESN'T continue.

Cheerleaders need to make sure that the stunts/pyramids/skills they do at games are done to help lead the crowd - not show off.

[MascotNet]

I'm sorry to hear that.  I'd rather see more participation by lowering standards on hardwood and rubberized tracks and allow high-caliber skills to be performed on safe flooring.  But that's just me.  Band players can get injured on natural grass.  : )

I

I'm completely opposed to these "spirit squads" that take the skill out of being a "cheerleader".  I can only hope that this trend DOESN'T continue.

Cheerleaders need to make sure that the stunts/pyramids/skills they do at games are done to help lead the crowd - not show off.

[ucaCHEERalum]

Booo...

Quantity over Quality is only good if you're looking for a tummy ache, brother.

- - -

Better cheerleaders (actually doing their prescribed job - instead of showing off) will yeild more "participation" from the crowd. 

Think about what you said...you want to lower standards...generally...thats never good...ever.

[MascotNet]

Sister, thanks.  When it comes to SPIRIT, I say the more the merrier!  When it comes to physical skill for competitions, then yes, quality is job one.  But you don't NEED skill to promote spirit!  It helps, but it's not live-and-die necessary! 

If you want to argue that knowledge of the game, a portfolio of response and motivational cheers, and an intuition to anticipate the crowd's rises and falls in a game is skill then yes, I'm in your corner.  But over the past 30 years that I've been on and off the sidelines I still say participation over restriction when it comes to spirit leading. 

Booo...

Quantity over Quality is only good if you're looking for a tummy ache, brother.

- - -

Better cheerleaders (actually doing their prescribed job - instead of showing off) will yeild more "participation" from the crowd. 

Think about what you said...you want to lower standards...generally...thats never good...ever.

[ucaCHEERalum]

Then lets get everyone big furry pajamas and let them run the sidelines with you. 

Not trying to be elitist, but you are attacking that which makes cheerleaders different from fans...any knucklehead can yell his tail off.  We organize them (the fans), keep their attention on the field/court during timeouts and the GOOD squads only use the skills you speak of to help them lead the crowd...NOT to show off.  Actually there are a lot of us that fight day in and day out to keep the right to perform at games in support of our teams. 

I'll put my squad of "skilled" cheerleaders up against any generic "spirit" group you can come up with. 

 

[MascotNet]

You are being elitist and insulting.  Just agree to disagree and don't be condescending. 

I wouldn't want to support anyone with an attitude like that, especially a COACH!!!!!

[pouncer the panther]

ooooooooooooh........burn.
I have been a cheerleader and now a new mascot.
and i think they are BOTH very demanding (even though in mascotting you sweat ALOT more)
and ucaCHEERalum
should think of the camp theme RESPECT and show it.please.
so please just show a little and just remember,
mascots usually don't stunt but some tumble.
cheerleaders tumble but peoples eyes tend to turn to the giant furry animal.
so please keep the boards clean.
this is about spirit is'nt it? 
geesh.

[MascotNet]

UCA Alum, just to be clear:

I support cheerleaders, both competitive and non-competitive.
I support the bands, marching and pep and kazoo.
I support mascots, mascot teams, and mascot groups that represent organizations.
I support flag wavers, flag runners and rabble rousers.
I support cannoneers and bell-ringers.
I support honor guards.
I support student spirit sections.
I support drumline groups and bugle groups that work as spirit units.
I support mini cheerleaders, mini mascots and mini football players.

In short, yes - the more groups that encourage spirit I'm 100% for.  NO GROUP stands above one or the other, when they all work in concert they do better.  Once someone gets it in their brain that they are more important than another to encourage the team that is playing on the field then they immediately give up the rights to claim they are a leader.  They become a performer. 

And that's okay, but it's not a supporter.  Supporters lift others up, not themselves.  Competitions arose for a good reason, but they aren't the end-all be-all to sports support.  The more people who work towards promoting spirit the better.


Wouldn't you agree?  Meh, maybe not, if you actually used the term "furry pajamas".  Then again, my college cheer tryouts had an element called "will she fit the uniform?".  Yeah.  Thank goodness we've moved away from that!

But if there's someone who wants to cheer who can't do the physical skills, but still has the heart and the understanding of sports support I say let him or her cheer.  I've seen plenty of physically and mentally disabled cheerleaders that have shown more positive, inclusive attitude than some of the best flyers.

[pouncer the panther]

what is a mini cheerleader/mascot is it like an honorary position?

[MascotNet]

Nah, little kids dressed as players, cheerleaders or mascots.  We had a little boy and girl mountaineer at a local high school, and my midget football team had a four-year-old dressed as a football player.  Cute as a button!

[ucaCHEERalum]

Wow - I kinda feel like I’ve been attacked by a band of rogue Muppets.

Listen, I think you are getting me all wrong here.  I love the crowd. I love crazy fans.  I’m for doing almost anything to raise fan support.  In fact I support all the same people that you support – even whacky mascots. 

But answer me this...if you take the skill out of cheerleading what do you have?  A dance team that shouts?  Listen there are only a handful of schools that compete...I know that it must seem like a lot, but think about how many high schools and colleges there are. 

Lets take just Division 1 college athletics for example.  There are 342 schools that are labeled as D1 schools by the NCAA.  If you look at the list of schools that submitted for entry into UCA's College Nationals for 2009 there were only 60 D1 teams.  60...that’s 60 Coed, Small Coed, & All-girl teams that submitted...less than that that actually made the trip to compete. 

The truth is that the vast majority of D1 college squads, whether they be coed or all-girl don't compete...but they DO stunt, build pyramids, etc to gain and hold the crowds attention on the field/court of play.  I don't have any figures...but I think its safe to assume that the variance between competition and non-competition teams is only greater at the D2, D3 and high school levels.

Getting back to what you had originally posted and my original response...I'm opposed to these squads that take the skill out of cheering just to let anyone in.  If this trend continues and proliferates it could have resounding effects.  If high schools stop stunting and just let anyone in, then when those kids graduate and go on to college they won’t have the skills necessary to make college squads.  I know it sounds dramatic…but without the high schools as feeders to collegiate programs then college cheerleading for the MAJORITY of schools ceases to exist.  And let me tell you…if the trend continues, it will effect the competition squads at both levels as well. 

As I said, there are those of us that work day-in and day-out to keep the right to perform those skills and to utilize them to support our teams.  Losing them to placate the ego of people that got cut from tryouts would truly be a shame. 

Got school spirit, but aren’t cut out to be a cheerleader…we’ve a place for you in our student section.

Call me elitist…call me whatever you want…but as for your views of me as a coach…I’m not losing any sleep over not having your support.  Truth is, that with an attitutde like yours, you probably wouldn’t have made my squad as my standards are clearly much too high.

[Kong]

Jim Lord actually recently posted some interesting points about the role of cheerleaders at this link as a response to the latest cheerleading article in a major publication.  To briefly list some of the things he stated:

The role of cheerleading:

The first is the issue of the role of cheerleaders and stunting. Most school cheer coaches recognize that their primary role is to lead the crowd at athletic contests. They can better fulfill this by doing basic "game stunts" like the thigh stands, elevators, extensions and yes - even some basket tosses. The game is going on behind the cheerleaders and the crowd is seated in high-rise bleachers. Stunts get the attention of the crowd, so that you can draw their focus to the cheer team in order to better lead them. Signs are more effective when they can be seen and partner stunts can accomplish this. In addition, the skills the cheerleaders do can build a rapport with the crowd and help them be a conduit between the crowd in the stands and the athletes on the field. As we teach, it is important to recognize that there are times for "game stunts" and that the more intricate type of skills that help attract great athletes are better reserved for entertainment-style routines at halftime or for competition.

Kong

[MascotNet]

My opposition was with MascotNet's suggestion that more schools need to opt for non-skilled cheerleading squads.  I don't have anything inherently against pep squads...but I don’t appreciate the idea that schools should entertain changing their squads from cheer squads that stunt to those that don't. 

  That's not what I said, I was saying that if a school chooses to have a non-competitive cheer squad that doesn't stunt then they should be allowed to.  And to say sideline cheers and dance skills are non-skills..... heh, well.  Good luck taking that to UDA!!!

I'd have NO PROBLEM having a team of mascots out on the field, as long as they were encouraging spirit effectively.  When support groups get the attitude that they are more important than the team they're supposed to support then it's time to reconsider their need to be on the field, or if they should choose to focus on competitions.  Same thing with marching bands.  I've seen marching bands skip Homecoming b/c they had their big competition the following day and they wanted the kids to rest up for it.

CheerAlum, again you denigrate to name-calling and you've seen none of that in my posts.  Please do reconsider how you address long-time and rookie members on this board.  Thanks. 

Might I also mention, especially to Jim Lord's post, that cheers that draw attention away from the game during key points are poor displays of cheerleading?  Same as when the band plays something peppy when a player is down.  Or a mascot fidgeting during the National Anthem.  It takes skill to respond and initiate at the right time, in the right place, to the right people.  This is a lost art of cheerleading.  Can I get an AMEN?

[pouncer the panther]

AMEN! SISTER!

[ucaCHEERalum]

That's not what I said…

I know…you said …

I think cheer coaches should consider all options when facing a new season. 

Meaning to me that you think more schools should continue the trend of eliminating stunts from cheerleading in favor of lowering standards- which is what I said I was opposed to.   Isn’t that what forum exchanges are all about…differing opinions? 

You stated yours.  I stated mine.

I happen to think that talent, hard work, skill, and determination should be praised, sought out, and ultimately rewarded. 

You are in favor of lowering standards.   

It is what it is. 

CheerAlum, again you denigrate to name-calling and you've seen none of that in my posts.  Please do reconsider how you address long-time and rookie members on this board.  Thanks.

Ok, so I called you a Muppet.  You’re a mascot.  Would “rogue band of GIANT Muppets have been better?  C’mon, I was having a little fun after your successive posts tearing into me and about not supporting a COACH like me.  My momma always use to say, “You can’t make faces at the zoo monkeys and not expect to have a little poo thrown your direction.”

As for my decorum, I think you’ll find that I’ve said nothing bad about anyone (except that you wouldn’t make my squad) - only that I hope the trend you speak of in your original post doesn’t continue.

Might I also mention, especially to Jim Lord's post, that cheers that draw attention away from the game during key points are poor displays of cheerleading?  Same as when the band plays something peppy when a player is down.  Or a mascot fidgeting during the National Anthem.  It takes skill to respond and initiate at the right time, in the right place, to the right people.  This is a lost art of cheerleading.  Can I get an AMEN?

An Amen?  Are you kidding me.  You’ve twisted what Jim said to fit your agenda.  You might pull one over on Pouncer…but not on me.  You’ve  also done this with most of my posts when you completely ignore that I’ve stated that cheerleaders need to utilize their “skills” when appropriate and NOT to show off.

You even did it twice in your last post when you said, in response to my post in another thread…

I'd have NO PROBLEM having a team of mascots out on the field, as long as they were encouraging spirit effectively.

This statement has absolutely nothing to do with the question that was posed…and truthfully, I imagine as someone who is trying to sell mascot suits, you wouldn’t really be in favor of that.

I suppose that it doesn’t matter what I say - you’ll just turn it around and try to shove it back at me.  I’m done with you and this thread.

Have a good Thursday. 

[Talon]

Ok, so I called you a Muppet.  You’re a mascot.  Would “rogue band of GIANT Muppets have been better?  C’mon, I was having a little fun after your successive posts tearing into me and about not supporting a COACH like me.  My momma always use to say, “You can’t make faces at the zoo monkeys and not expect to have a little poo thrown your direction.”

 From what I've read on this thread, seems like there's poo being thrown from both sides...

 Okay, so this is how I see it... What's wrong with having an "unskilled" spirit group in addition to a "skilled" cheer squad? Isn't it all about SPIRIT rather than lifting your leg in the air and doing flips? I say if you want to foster the spirit of cheerleading "skills", have a seperate competition cheerleading squad... that does flips and stuff. If they are part of the regular cheer squad, they can do flips and tricks and whatever at games as well. Great. But when it comes to a game situation, isn't it all about getting the crowd pumped, getting everybody on their feet, and making the stadium rock? If it takes a "skilled" group of cheerleaders to do this, great! But what's wrong with having a healthy supplement to that?

Again, this is how I see it- tell me if I'm totally missing the point.